Diminishing Returns

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Diminishing Returns

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Started 9 months ago by Raw_Sharks
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Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Decided to finally make a training log to try and track some progress, after lurking for a while.

Stats;
Height: 6ft 3
Weight: 97kg

Lifts;
Bench: 90kg
Squat: 150kg
Deadlift: 180kg
OH Press: 55kg

I've been training consistently for about 2 years, mostly program hopping due to a lack of persistent gyms to train in and a severe lack of cash. I've made some gains recently (the first in around a year) after following the Propane template for the last 3 months or so. It fits around my shift work really well, so I'm reluctant to go onto anything else unless I start to find my gains or lifts plateauing.

Today's session;

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x5, 70x5, 75x5, 80x3

Deadlift: 75x10, 120x5, 140x5, 150x5

Incline DB Press: 3 sets of 10, 8, 8
Flyes: 3 sets of 15, 10, 10

Lat Pulldown 3 sets of 10
Wide Grip Cable Rows: 3 sets of 10-8

Biceps and calves

August 6, 2012 - 09:46 PM #

1 like (Ben)
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Squat: 60x10, 80x5, 90x5, 100x5, 120x3, 120x2 (had intentions of going slightly heavier but my right knee was playing up)
Leg Press: 150x25, 180x15, 180x5, 200x8
Leg Ext. 3x15 reps

OH Press: warmup, 35x5, 40x5, 45x5, 50x1
Lat raises: 3x12
Rear Delts: 3x15

Stiff Leg Dead DB 30x8, 32x8, 35x6

CGBP: 60 5x5
Dips 5x5

Cleans 60x3, 70x3, 75x2

Had to basically stop at this point as I'd accidentally poisoned myself with too much caffeine, but, I managed some light ab work before I left

August 7, 2012 - 01:26 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,863

Welcome to the forum. What are your goals at the moment?

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

August 7, 2012 - 07:55 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Thanks, my current short-term goals are to up my Bench, Deadlift and Squat- for now I'm aiming for 110 Bench, 200 Deadlift and 180 squat.

Aesthetically my legs could really do with some more size, although the above mentioned knee pain is a persistent problem in increasing weight on my squat.

Long term I'd like to introduce some sort of competitive element; either comps or sport, although at the moment I'm pretty happy working on my lifts.

August 7, 2012 - 08:14 PM #
Fred

Member
Posts: 581

You'll like this read http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/powerlifting-articles/powerlifting-101-why-you-need-to-competenow/ if you are going to compete.

August 8, 2012 - 09:56 AM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Thanks, interesting read, good for motivation, although at the moment I don't think my lifts are high enough to actually qualify me to even enter a comp (as far as I can make out from http://www.gbpf.org.uk/). I'm hoping to persuade my brother to enter one so I can go along with him though.

August 10, 2012 - 12:52 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Last two days;

fasted AM cardio, walking about 45mins to work

Today's session;

Bench: (bar x 20), 65x3, 70x3, 75x3, 85x2, 85x1

Deadlift: 60x10, 100x8, 125x3, 145x3, 160x2, 160x1, 160x1 (grip not great today)

Incline DB Press: 22.5x10, 25x8, 25x8
Flyes: 15x10, 15x10, 17.5x8

Bent Over Row: 60x10, 70x10, 80x5, 80x5
Lat Pulldown: 45x12, 50x10, 55x10

Smith Machine Calf Raises - 60x100
Calf Raises - body-weight x100

Preacher Curls 20x12, 20x10, 20x10
One armed Preacher Curls - 10x10 (3 sets)
Db Hammer curls; 22.5x10, 25x8, 27x5

August 10, 2012 - 01:00 PM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 3,121

Anyone can enter divisional comps in GBPF, you only need to qualify for national comps. Make sure you can compete raw at divisional comps. Dont know where you are but there is a Yorkshire / North East (YNEPF) divisional in november

I think the experience of doing one is more important than how much you lift. You'll learn a lot by doing one, from how much warm up you'll get on a meet day, how to taper, how you handle nerves. I think its better to get some out the way so you are ready when you have some better numbers.

Otherwise you walk in for a pb to realise you get no warm up, too long between lifts, go before the judges say 'squat', get red lighted for minor things you didnt know about. Biggest thing is learning about your nerves. Some people are shit with it, others are fine. Guy I trained with and did an oly comp with, capable of hitting good numbers, was hoping to qualify for nationals (200kg total for his wc I think). Had never been nervous about maxing in the gym. We drive to leeds at like 6am. Never seen anyone break down into such a wreck when there was no need. could tell he was a bit nervous in the car, when we got there he was worse, when he had to start lifting, he freaked. He was so nervous he was making me anxious! he bombed.

needless to say lifting at a meet with other people and a crowd is different to lifting in the gym. If you wanna get into it, just do it.
Like the article says, youll train way harder, your lifts will improve faster. Partly because you go to a meet and someone opens with a 300kg squat, suddenly your like double bodyweight PB seems pretty shit. Also, you meet people, get tips about training etc.

Ive seen 100kg lifters do a lot worse than 180/110/200, especially at their first meet.

My good friend George, he missed the 93kg class by 0.1kg, so in 100s, went 160/110/190 (I think) and he enjoyed it loads. And he didnt know how to squat or deadlift like 4 months before that lol), most importantly he went 8/9 at his first meet. only failed his last bench attempt (115 or 120).

"cut down on the cardio jackass."

August 10, 2012 - 03:18 PM #

1 like (Raw_Sharks)
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Thanks, I had no idea you can just enter the regional comps, and yeah I'm in York so I'll definitely look into that.

Been home for a couple of days, so had to adjust my training, hence lack of posts as well, no gym within a reasonable distance, but able to do some BB complexes and other such novelties.

But now I'm back.
So the following accounts for my last two days;

Yesterday;

Squat: 60x12, 105x3, 110x3, 125x2
Leg Press: 150x15, 150x15, 150x15,
100 x body weight squats
Leg Ext. 3x15 reps

OH Press: bar x20, 40x3, 50x3, 55x3
Lat raises: 3x12
Front Raises: 3x10

Stiff Leg Dead BB 80x5, 80x5, 90x5, 90x5

CGBP: 60 5x5
Pulldown, 45x10, 50x10, 55x8

crunches; 2x50

Today;

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x10, 70x5, 80x3, 90x1

Deadlift: 100x5, 130x5, 150x2, (had to change grip to over/underhand at this point) 150x1, 170x1

Incline DB Press: 22.5x10, 25x8, 25x8
Cable Flyes: 3x20

Wide grip machine row: 50x10, 55x10, 60x8
Lat Pulldown: 50x10, 55x10, 60x10

Smith Machine Calf Raises - 60x100
Calf Raises - body-weight x100

Db Hammer curls; 22.5x10, 25x8, 25x6
Db curls; 12.5x12, 15x10, 15x10

August 19, 2012 - 10:20 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,863

Didn't realise you were in York, just graduated from Uni there. You a student? Where do you train?

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

August 19, 2012 - 10:37 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

I was a student here, I graduated last year and now work for the Uni. When I was a student here I used to go to the Sports Centre, but I guess that's why I wasn't making any progress for a while.

I currently go to the Railway Institue Gym, which is poorly advertised but quiet and has a lot of free weights/decent benches and squat rack, unlike the Uni gym. My memberships up in September though, so I'm currently scouting out the other gyms.

Where did you train at?

August 20, 2012 - 11:57 AM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Today:

Squat: 60x15, 60x10, 105x5, 120x4, 130x1
Front Squat: 60x5, 75x3, 75x3, 80x3, 85x1, 90x1
Walking Lunges; 2x 20 DBs - across the gym and back

Seated Smith Machine OHP; 40x10, 60x5, 60x5, 65x3, 65x3, 70x1

Clean and Press: barx20, 50x5, 55x3, 55x3, 60x2, 60x2, 65x1 (last one was more of a clean + split jerk)

Front Rasies; 3x10
Rear Delts: 3x12

Tri Pulldown; 4x10, 10, 8, 6
Tri ext; 2x12

Hanging Leg Raises; 4x8
Crunches 1x100

August 22, 2012 - 01:13 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Today;

Started on deadlift for a change: (warmup - 60x10), 100x5, 120x5, 140x2, 150x1, 160x1, 170x1

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x10, 70x5, 80x3, 85x1

Decline DBs; 20x10, 22.5x10, 25x6
Incline DB: 25x8, 27.5x6, 30x4

DB one armed row; 30x8, 35x8, 40x6, 45x5

Wide grip machine row: 50x12, 60x10, 70x8
Close grip lat pulldown: 50x12, 70x8

Smith Machine Calf Raises - 80x100
(super-set in 4 sets of 25)
Calf Raises - body-weight x100

Db concentration curls; 10x12, 15x8
BB Curl; 40x8, 40x6

August 23, 2012 - 12:11 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Working a lot both this week, and next (12 hour shifts), so I've been doing bodyweight stuff after work. More than anything this is just to give myself a bit of a psychological boost, and to combat feeling like shit in-between work, as I'd really struggle to find time to train properly after a shift.

In-between meal prep for the next day, and other time eating necessities I get about 20-30 mins at night to do bodyweight/light cardio.

So, currently my daily routine (on the days I'm working) tends to follow;

40 mins fasted AM cardio, walking to work

then at night

bodyweight routine;

100x bodyweight squats
100x pressups
100x calf rasises
100x crunches/abs
static holds etc.

or occasionally I'll do light cardio instead; jogging/walking etc.

August 25, 2012 - 02:50 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Finally got a day off work today;

Couldn't start on squats, as someone was doing crunches in the squat rack when I first arrived...

Sing leg ext. 20x12, 25x12, 30x10

Seated Smith Machine OHP; 40x12, 50x10, 60x8

Back Squat; 60x10, 100x5, 120x3, 130x2, 135x1, 135x1, 100x5, 100x5
Front Squat; 60x5, 70x5, 70x5, 80x3, 90x1, 95x1

Strict standing OHP; 40x5, 50x3, 55x1, 60x1 (PB in strict form) (tried for 65 but couldn't get it past my face)

DB Lunges 22.5x12, 22.5x12
Single leg Ham Curl; 10x12, 15x10

Lat Raises; 12.5x12, 15x10
Low Cable Pull; 15x12, 20x8

Tri ext. 30x12, 35x10, 40x8
Tri Pushdown; 40x10, 45x10, 50x8

Clean and Press; 50x5, 50x5, 55x2
Clean; 50x3, 60x3, 70x1

August 28, 2012 - 12:11 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Managed to inflict a back injury on myself after my last training day, I'm fairly confident it's just a pulled/strained muscle but it's been hurting on and off since Tuesday.

Slightly irrelevant anyway, as due to work I've been unable to train up until today.
Back pretty much ok by today.
(at the gf's for the weekend so trained in an unfamiliar gym with somewhat dodgy equipment)

Deadlift;(warmup - 60x12), 80x10, 90x6 100x6, 120x3, 140x2, 150x1, 160x1, 170x1, 175x1

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x10, 70x5, 70x5, 70x5

Incline DB: 25x8, 25x8, 25x8

Cable Fyles 25, 20, 15, 10

Wide grip machine row: 10x3
lat pulldown: 10x3

Db concentration curls; 10x12, 12x10 15x8
BB Curl; 40x8, 40x6

DB calve raises; 25 reps x4 sets

September 2, 2012 - 10:34 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,863

When working up to a DL single I personally find higher reps are just a drain on reserves, have you ever tried just ramping in doubles and singles?

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

September 3, 2012 - 09:05 AM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Jonny said:
When working up to a DL single I personally find higher reps are just a drain on reserves, have you ever tried just ramping in doubles and singles?

Yeah you're right, I tend to do higher reps on the lower weights, as at the moment I usually neglect warming up in any other way. So, for example, doing 80x10 etc. is really just a habit I've built up as a way of warming up. But I suppose it does make more sense to ramp up in doubles/singles when aiming for a 1rm.

Today;

Squat: 60x5, 90x5, 100x5, 120x2, 140x1 (pretty terrible form on the 140, considering decreasing weight and up the volume next session)
Leg ext. 30x12, 35x10, 45x8
Leg Press; 130x12, 150x10, 180x8, 200x6

Stiff Leg Dead; 60x12, 80x10
Ham Curl; 15x12, 20x10

Seated DB Shoulder Press; 15x12, 22x10, 25x8
Lat Rasies; 12x12, 15x10
Face Pull; 35x12, 40x10, 45x10

Tri Pulldown; 4x 12, 10, 10, 8

September 3, 2012 - 04:33 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

When working up to a DL single I personally find higher reps are just a drain on reserves, have you ever tried just ramping in doubles and singles?

Yeah that does make sense, I'll give it a go on my next workout. I've fallen into a habit of using higher reps as a warmup, but ramping into lower numbers will probably work better.

Today;

Back Squat; 60x5, 90x5, 100x3, 120x2, 140x1, 100x5, 90x5
(pretty terrible form on the 140, might try foucsing on form at a slightly lower weight next time)

Leg ext. 30x15, 35x12, 45x8
Leg Press; 130x12, 150x10, 180x8, 200x6

Stiff leg dead; 60x12, 80x10
Ham curl; 15x12, 20x10

DB Shoudler Press; 15x12, 22x10, 25x8
Lat Rasies; 12x12, 15x10
Face Pull; 35x12, 40x10, 45x10

Tri Pushdown; 40x12, 45x10, 50x10, 55x8

September 3, 2012 - 08:14 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Pretty shit session, working nights atm so forced to going to the gym in the afternoon. Unfortunately this means that it's quite busy, and tends to be full of passive aggressive cunts. A bad combination when you're already really tired.

Deadlift;(warmup - 70x5), 90x3, 110x2, 120x1, 130x1, 140x1, 150x1

Had to stop at this point as I was getting a small amount of pain and pins and needles sensation from the middle of my back, due to last weeks injury I didn't want to push it.

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x5, 70x5, 75x3, 80x2, 80x2, 80x2

Incline DB: 22x10, 25x8, 25x6

One arm hammer machine lat pulldown: 20x12, 35x10, 45x10
Noticed that once I started working my lats, back pain seemed to decrease.

Db concentration curls;,12x10, 12x8 15x8
Preacher Curl; 2x12

Seated calve raises; 25 reps x4 sets

Not sure that my current template of doing two heavy lifts in the same session is sustainable, especially since having hurt something in my back last week. Contemplating backing off the ramping to singles approach for a couple of weeks/until my back feels better.

September 5, 2012 - 05:43 PM #
Jonny

Editor
Posts: 1,863

Seated calve raises; 25 reps x4 sets

Is this inspired by Kiefer or just a coincidence?

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world.

September 8, 2012 - 08:10 AM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

No I originally got the idea from a t-Nation article about calf training, can't remember which one, something to do with the guys daughter doing ballet :/

Anyway, had about 2 weeks off due to injuring my back; it was aching pretty much all the time, when I woke up and through the day when I was'nt training etc. But it seems fine now.

Fairly light session today, messing around really just to get back into it;

Bench; 60x10, 60x10, 70x10
Incline Hammer Press; 60x5, 80x5, 100x3, 100x3, 80x3
Decline DB Press; 20x8, 22.5x5, 22.5x5, 25x5
DB Pullover; 20x8, 22.5x8
Pulldowns; 55x8, 65x8, 65x6
SS;
BB Curls; 20x5, 25x5, 25x5, 25x5, 25x5
Chins; 3, 3, 3, 3, 3

DB Hammer curls; 17x10, 20x10
Dips; 5x5

September 19, 2012 - 01:46 PM #
Harrison

Forever Smolov
Posts: 3,121

Raw_Sharks said:
Not sure that my current template of doing two heavy lifts in the same session is sustainable, especially since having hurt something in my back last week.

disregarding the injury (ie when its better), yes it is sustainable. try bench first, it will take less out of you. (bench>deadlift>bench assistance). separate days is probably better, but if you are unable to then this approach is fine.

Raw_Sharks said:
Contemplating backing off the ramping to singles approach for a couple of weeks/until my back feels better.

sensible. do speed work for a bit and back strengthening assistance.

doesnt matter what reps you do singles/dubs/trips, as long as they are with a moderate weight and good form.

"cut down on the cardio jackass."

September 19, 2012 - 02:08 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Harrison said:
disregarding the injury (ie when its better), yes it is sustainable. try bench first, it will take less out of you. (bench>deadlift>bench assistance). separate days is probably better, but if you are unable to then this approach is fine.

sensible. do speed work for a bit and back strengthening assistance.

doesnt matter what reps you do singles/dubs/trips, as long as they are with a moderate weight and good form.

Thanks for the advice Harrison, I think when I go back to approaching heavy weights again (next week when I'm sure my back isn't going to relapse) I'll follow my previous template of two heavy lifts, but make sure I only go really heavy on one i.e if it's heavy bench day, do DL as per program but maybe 5x3 or 3x5, as opposed to 5, 3, 1 etc.

Today;

Leg ext. 3x12
Leg Press; 100x10, 140x5, 140x5, 180x3, 180x3
Squat; 60x10, 100x3, 100x3, 100x3, 100x3, 100x3
Sumo DL; 80x5, 80x5, 80x5
Single leg Curls; 20x5, 20x5, 20x5
Stiff Leg Dead; 90x8, 90x8
Seated Calf Raises; 25x100

September 20, 2012 - 08:08 PM #
Yusef

Editor
Posts: 3,161

Harrison said:
disregarding the injury (ie when its better), yes it is sustainable. try bench first, it will take less out of you. (bench>deadlift>bench assistance). separate days is probably better, but if you are unable to then this approach is fine.

I personally prefer doing the bigger lift first, i.e. deadlift, squat, press, assistance (my session today).
Reason being you got the hard part out of the way, the most energy is required for deadlifting whereas you don't need to be as amped/fresh to hit a pressing PB, provided you've not exhausted any of the prime movers. Also safer not to deadlift when tired.

Some research suggests that training pulling before pressing can affect performance, but nobody should be doing 10 sets of lat pulldowns before benching.

"metal is just gabba for pansies" - Harrison

September 22, 2012 - 12:10 PM #
Ben

Editor
Posts: 2,195

Raw_Sharks said:
Not sure that my current template of doing two heavy lifts in the same session is sustainable, especially since having hurt something in my back last week.

If you follow an A/B split (like DC, for example, or the PropaneProtocol) you would be performing more than two heavy compound lifts in a session. It is sustainable if your diet, recovery, and motivation are in place.

I don't even lift.

September 22, 2012 - 12:16 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Yusef said:
I personally prefer doing the bigger lift first, i.e. deadlift, squat, press, assistance (my session today).
Reason being you got the hard part out of the way, the most energy is required for deadlifting whereas you don't need to be as amped/fresh to hit a pressing PB, provided you've not exhausted any of the prime movers. Also safer not to deadlift when tired.

Some research suggests that training pulling before pressing can affect performance, but nobody should be doing 10 sets of lat pulldowns before benching.

It seemed to be going from Squat to OHP that was making my back hurt, I think I wasn't resting enough in between the lifts, or it could be (quite likely) that my form on one or both of them is simply terrible.

I've now gone back to my original template (Propane protocol) with some minor adjustments onto what I was doing previously;

Yesterday;

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x10, 70x5, 75x3, 75x3, 80x3

Deadlift;(warmup - 60x10), 90x3, 100x2, 120x2, 140x2, 140x2, 150x2

Incline DBs: 22x8, 25x6, 25x6

Decline DBs; 22x8, 25x5, 25x5

Wide grip machine row: 10x3
lat pulldown: 10x3

ss;
BB Curl; 30x3, 30x3, 30x3, 30x3, 303
ChinUps; 3,3,3,3,3

DB calve raises; 25x100

Today;

Back Squat; 60x5, 90x5, 100x3, 120x2, 130x2, 130x2, 90x5, 90x5

Leg Press; 150x8, 200x3, 200x3, 200x3

Single Leg curl; 20x6, 20x6, 20x6, 25x5, 25x5

OHP; 20x10, 40x5, 45x5, 50x3, 50x3

CGBP; 60x5, 65x5, 70x5, 75x5
tri pushdown; 50x8, 55x6, 55x6

stiff leg deads; 90x5, 90x5, 95x5

Farmers walk; 42sx circuit around gym, 45sx around gym

September 23, 2012 - 12:07 PM #
Yusef

Editor
Posts: 3,161

You could always switch to seated OHP - I won't tell anyone.

"metal is just gabba for pansies" - Harrison

September 23, 2012 - 02:29 PM #

1 like (Raw_Sharks)
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

25/09/12

Bench: (bar x 20), 60x8, 70x6, 75x5, 80x3, 80x2

Deadlift; 90x5, 100x2, 110x2, 120x2, 130x2, 140x1, 150x1, 160x1, 170x1

lat pulldown: 55x12, 65x8

ss;
BB Curl; 40x5, 40x5, 40x3, 40x3, 40x3
ChinUps; 3,3,3,3,3

Seated calve raises; 27x100

September 25, 2012 - 12:50 PM #
Raw_Sharks

Member
Posts: 29

Single Leg Curl 3 sets x20

Squat; 60x10, 90x8, 100x5, 100x5, 100x5, 120x2, 100x3, 100x3

Stiff Leg Dead; 90x5, 90x5, 90x5

Seated Smith machine OHP; 50x5, 60x5, 65x3, 50x5

Tri pushdown; 50x15, 55x10, 60x8, 65x6
DB Tri ext. 25x10, 30x8, 30x8

Single leg press; 50x10, 60x8, 60x9

September 28, 2012 - 11:39 AM #

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